admirals club military not in uniform

Sign up and well send you Nerdy articles about the money topics that matter most to you along with other ways to help you get more from your money. If you use your points to purchase a day pass, youre getting only 1 cent per point. The walk from the delta gates to the lounge on terminal c is about 7-10 minutes. is a financial expert and award-winning writer who is obsessed with frugality, budgeting and travel. Assigning Editor | Travel, SEO, Travel Loyalty Programs. AAdvantage Gold members: $625 (new), $575 (renewal). - Car Insurance FAQ, Rental car benefits, including primary liability, through USAA, does usaa insurance cover rental cars? I was NOT wearing uniform on any of these trips. Admirals Club lounge access is complimentary if you fly in business or first class on eligible departing or arriving flights operated by American Airlines or a Oneworld alliance partner. Here are our picks for the. Read more. When evaluating offers, please review the financial institutions Terms and Conditions. The main Admirals Club benefits you can enjoy include: Generally speaking, you can access Admirals Club benefits based on the membership you have or the class of service you book for your flight. Or is there another reason you shouldnt. Day passes are available for purchase at select locations for $59 or 5,900 AAdvantage miles, which includes access for you and up to three children (under age 18). All domestic and international Admirals Clubs are included except the Airspace Lounge in San Diego (SAN) and the JAL Sakura Lounge in Honolulu (HNL). Terminal 4 (concourse level across from gate 40) Quiet room. There appear to be a lot of DP's of either having to be in uniform, or either on orders or just show "leave orders". Alaska Airlines: Located in 6 major U.S. cities, with 650+ global partner lounges2. Sign up and well send you Nerdy articles about the money topics that matter most to you along with other ways to help you get more from your money. This is a change, apparently recently. doesnt come with Admirals Club membership directly, you can use it to access the lounge at no cost anyway. Check out Zach's Credit Card Guide on YouTube. Priority check-in, airport screening, boarding and a free checked bag for you and up to 8 travel companions. An eligible flight includes any departing or arriving flight that is marketed or operated by American, marketed and operated by any, Dallas Fort Worth (DFW) and Honolulu (HNL), Boarding pass on a same-day flight operated by American. That's true for all of the below methods of gaining entry. Admirals Club guests can pay extra for premium drinks and meals. Additionally, between AMEX and CSR, you get $30/month combined in Uber Eats and Door Dash credits. Fly internationally as a Oneworld elite member, The ways to access American Airlines Admirals Clubs, recapped, Admirals Club lounge access is complimentary if you fly in business or first class on eligible departing or arriving flights operated by American Airlines or a, How to maximize business and first-class web specials with American Airlines, If you hold Executive Platinum, Platinum Pro or Platinum elite status in the. , but if you consider the yearly cost of the Admirals Club membership, its practically a bargain. How many points do you need for Admirals Club? I asked do you still do military on she cut me off and said no, very sharply, then said have you tried the uso lounge? In a bitchy way. Can you go to Admirals Club without flying American? Im active Military and on orders and was just denied access to B terminal admirals club. Update: Some offers mentioned below are no longer available. Every day, we strive to bring you peace-of-mind as you work toward your financial goals. Her work has been featured in AwardWallet. The uniform requirement for upgrades or lounge access always struck me as "we only support the troops if we can be seen supporting the troops. Id love to see a review on all of the USO airport clubs. That experience got me thinking so I tried to do a little investigating of my own. Bailee Madison, actor. If not indicated on your boarding pass, provide your Frequent Flyer program status card (physical or electronic). You only need your military ID and boarding pass to enter. With an annual membership, you can bring your immediate family (including spouse and children) or up to two guests. The ribbons came from eBay, the uniform from one of our forum members. Clubs have reopened in Austin, Boston, Charlotte, Denver, Houston, Los Angeles, Miami, New York (JFK and LGA), Washington Reagan and many more. To use an Admirals Club day pass, your name must be printed on the pass and you must fly a same-day flight operated by American Airlines, a Oneworld carrier or JetBlue Airways (with the exception of JetBlue flights to or from Europe). What Is A Good Salary In Fort Lauderdale? Get more smart money moves straight to your inbox. Its a great place for travelers to recharge before heading back into the wilderness of a busy terminal. Dallas is no longer letting us in support is wavering. You can access American Airlines lounges in several ways: Buying a day pass or an Admirals Lounge Club membership, holding elite status with American Airlines, Cathay Pacific or British Airways, holding Oneworld Emerald or Sapphire status, traveling as a member of the military in uniform, flying on a business or first class ticket, or holding the, Citi / AAdvantage Executive World Elite Mastercard. You can access the Admirals Club lounge based on membership, class of service or AAdvantage status. Here the best credit cards for airport lounge access in India: Your Amex Platinum card and Amex Business Platinum card come with complimentary lounge access to over 1,400 different lounge properties worldwide, including the vast network of Priority Pass lounges. Otherwise, Admirals Club, Delta SkyClub, and United Club when flying on their respective airlines. AAdvantage members with ConciergeKey status can enter Flagship Lounges. For example, the Priority Pass network lets you enter more than 1,300 airport lounges worldwide regardless of which airline youre flying that day. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. Tried at La Guardia last summer. He was stranded in Chicago last night. Other factors, such as our own proprietary website rules and the likelihood of applicants' credit approval also impact how and where products appear on this site. Includes customers on all departing or arriving flights marketed and operated by American or a oneworld airline (regardless of cabin).*. *For AAdvantage members, please see qualifying AAdvantage Executive Platinum, AAdvantage Platinum Pro and AAdvantage Platinum. When you click on If you have Oneworld Emerald or Sapphire status, you can access Admirals Clubs and partner lounges with a qualifying itinerary for same-day travel on a Oneworld carrier. *Except on flights operated by Alaska Airlines, access is not granted when flying from the United States to Canada, the Caribbean and Mexico. I am very grateful to United and American for the dozens of times my family and I enjoyed the lounges during my active duty years (Go Navy, Beat Army) and the friendly lounge agents offering their own thanks and well wishes on our travels. Pro tip: most of the big banks waive annual fees on credit cards for military personnel. There are several methods you can use to get access to an American Airlines lounge. Based on the valuation, youd be better off paying cash rather than using your points. This site does not include all credit card companies or all available credit card offers. Make sure to present a military ID and same-day boarding pass at the door. If you use your points to purchase a day pass, youre getting only 1 cent per point. Opens another site in a new window that may not meet accessibility guidelines. However, all credit card information is presented without warranty. Admirals Club Day Pass: A day pass can be purchased directly on-site. The content on this page is accurate as of the posting date; however, some of our partner offers may have expired. Get a card with lounge access. Twitter: . Keep an eye on your inboxwell be sending over your first message soon. Admirals Club annual membership rates vary depending on your frequent flyer status with American Airlines: Non-elite AAdvantage members: $650 (new membership), $600 (renewal). for the lounge youre planning on visiting as close as possible to your departure date to get the latest information. The Navy had him booked on Southwest which cancelled yesterday. Does AA first class include lounge access? At the most extreme, some military personnel (e.g., black and/or white SOF and intel) who fly commercial even required to remove anything that distinguishes their military affiliation. You can also buy a household membership for $1,150 to $1,250 (depending on your status level), which includes access for you and your spouse or domestic partner even when youre not flying together. Here is a list of our partners. For a limited time: Starting April 1, 2021, qualifying international flights will include flights between the U.S. and Canada, the Caribbean and Mexico. Whether youre a frequent flyer or just travel with your family once a year, these are the American Airlines cards with the best perks and rewards bonuses. This also gives you Admirals Club access. Rosemarie Clancy is a freelance writer and editor. If you want a taste of the comforts, consider purchasing a day pass during your next American flight. This policy also doesn't say you must be active duty, so reservists, it's worth a polite request at the desk to see if they'll let you enter. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. Got same BS excuse, but different connecting flight at another airport let me in (but made me promise to sit along a wall and not take any good seats). Whats an Army moment that stands out in your memory? Instagram: . Elite status holders are allowed one guest each. Learn more: The credit cards that offer airport lounge access. Eligible flights include the above mentioned domestic routes and international routes between the U.S. and Asia, Australia, Central America, Europe, Mexico City (MEX), New Zealand and South America. How I use my American Airlines Executive World Elite Card. The Navy had him booked on Southwest which cancelled yesterday. More information on the Admirals Club website. The cost in miles is explained in the chart below: Also, keep in mind that you can get Admirals Club membership for free if you sign up for the Citi / AAdvantage Executive World Elite Mastercard. Here is a list of our partners. Also, note that some Admirals Club locations are currently out of commission due to COVID-19, but its possible theyll reopen soon. How Much Are Travel Points and Miles Worth in 2023? All Rights Reserved. Or AA could end the offer. If you want to enjoy a regular meal instead of the light fare (yogurt, crudites with dip, crackers, soup, fruit and bagels, etc.) AAdvantage members with. on an international itinerary between the U.S. and Asia, Australia, Canada, the Caribbean, Central and South America, Europe, Mexico, and New Zealand. You will need to present your military ID and a same-day boarding pass for a flight operated by American Airlines. Our points-obsessed staff uses a plethora of credit cards on a daily basis. Each year the card gives you a $250 credit on an airfare charge in addition to 50,000 Thank You points and other benefits. If you are only flying a couple of times per year, the benefits are unlikely to outweigh the cost of membership. The information, including card rates and fees, presented in the review is accurate as of the date of the review. See what a point or mile is worth with our appraisals of a loyalty programs currency, based on redemption values. Additionally, transcontinental flights with seats ticketed as Flagship qualify, including flights between New York-John F. Kennedy and San Francisco, New York-JFK and Los Angeles, New York-JFK and Orange County, and Los Angeles and Miami. United asked for my LEAVE chit (one agent told me TDY orders would not work, interestingly). Learn more: Maximizing American Airlines business and first class web specials. Our partners cannot pay us to guarantee favorable reviews of their products or services. Content published under this author byline is generated using automation technology. Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts, https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/clubs/admirals-club-access.jsp. Required fields are marked *. American/Alaska alliance: Is it time to get an Alaska Airlines credit card? Includes U.S. military personnel traveling in uniform traveling on a same-day flight operated by American. A one-day Admirals Club pass costs $59 or 5,900 AAdvantage miles. You should plan to spend around $146 per day on your vacation in. Make sure to check the, You want a travel credit card that prioritizes whats important to you. But it was a rare occasion when an agent pushed back. How do you think our forces get to those destinations? no annual fee for active duty Platinum cardholders, Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information, Must be on orders and traveling on an international leg, Must be returning from an overseas deployment, The lounge agent would try and direct me to the USO. I always go to thd Admirals lounge, never once in uniform. It is usually a rank above admiral (which is now usually the highest rank in peace-time for officers in active service), and is often held by the most senior admiral of an entire naval service. 1 guest (children over 2 count as a guest). Amenities. How much are American Airlines miles worth? This information may be different than what you see when you visit a financial institution, service provider or specific products site. Accuracy, independence and authority remain as key principles of our editorial guidelines. See the online credit card applications for details about the terms and conditions of an offer. Post pre-bootcamp, pre-commissioning questions in r/NewToTheNavy. Elina Geller is a Lead Travel Writer at NerdWallet specializing in airline and hotel loyalty programs and travel insurance. No fucking way that youre a retired USAF colonel because what you posted above is the most retarded comment Ive seen online. Improve earnings, maximize rewards and track progress toward dream trips. Appears to be at the discretion of the club agent, probably dependent on how busy they are at the moment. This policy doesn't make a lot of sense and is also poorly worded on AA.com. NerdWallet strives to keep its information accurate and up to date. So, if you plan to visit Admirals Club lounges often, the cost of the card along with all its perks, will be your best bet for getting access to the lounges. The water temperature in Fort Lauderdale in december is pleasant. Our partners compensate us. Depending on how often you fly, you could value this benefit at $250-500 per year. I bought him a ticket on American using airline miles and that later cancelled too. Megan has built and directed remote writing teams and strategies for websites like GoAbroad and Go Overseas. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. A Flagship ticket will also get you access if you're flying from Dallas-Fort Worth to Honolulu, Kona or Maui; from Charlotte to Honolulu; or from Chicago-OHare to Honolulu. This information may be different than what you see when you visit a financial institution, service provider or specific products site. Our partners cannot pay us to guarantee favorable reviews of their products or services. My Epic Journey to Antarctica Getting There, Veterans Day Discounts and Free Meals Travel Blogs, do rental cars include liability insurance? They require to see orders or leave chits, but a little sweet talk is usually is all that is needed. Many travelers enjoy airport lounge access. Children must be accompanied by adult day-pass holder and present boarding pass for same-day travel on American or a partner airline. As Commander-in-Chief of the Combined Fleet during the Russo-Japanese War . The chart below shows how much you would pay to join the Admirals Club if you purchased your membership outright: You can also purchase a day pass (based on availability) into Admirals Club lounges for $59. So how do we make money? There is only one credit card that will get you into an American Airlines Admirals Club lounge. Copyright 2023 CreditCards.com a Red Ventures Company. Unfortunately, $200 wont cover the entire cost of annual membership, but the credit will cover three one-day passes fully and one pass partially. The editorial content on this page is based solely on the objective assessment of our writers and is not driven by advertising dollars. They gave access to my son with CAC card and boarding pass. This may influence which products we review and write about (and where those products appear on the site), but it in no way affects our recommendations or advice, which are grounded in thousands of hours of research. You want a travel credit card that prioritizes whats important to you. Good luck to all! It smelled like Good job SirAlways good seeing an O get their hands dirty. The The Platinum Card from American Express comes with a $200 airline fee credit, which is issued as a statement credit and can be used for incidentals, such as checked bags or seat selection charges. Lots of free travel, AMEX - Delta lounges and Centurion Lounges Chase Sapphire Reserve - Priority Pass Lounges (AMEX has this also, but it is a lower tier than Sapphire) Chase United Miles (the one with the $400+annual fee that gets waived) - United Lounge Access. Opinions expressed therein are solely those of the reviewer and have not been reviewed or approved by any advertiser. The CSA thought that we needed to remind people that we were at war. Friend got a good pic of the Carl Vinson recently. Anya Kartashova is a freelance writer whose work has been published on FrugalTravelGuy, Fodor's, FlyerTalk, 10xTravel and Reward Expert. You can also earn 50,000 bonus miles when you spend $5,000 on your card within three months of account opening, and you wont pay any foreign transaction fees. Currently, Admirals Club members can access lounges no matter which airline youre flying. Don't forget to sign up for the lounge access. Just because the wars arent as publicized as much anymore doesnt mean that our military shouldnt be treated to anything but the best. Weigh the pros and cons of paying for Admirals Club membership before you invest, and consider the Admirals Club alternatives that are out there. This post contains references to products from one or more of our advertisers. This card comes with the following sign-up bonus: Earn 50,000 American Airlines AAdvantage bonus miles after making $5,000 in purchases in the first 3 months of account opening. Pre-qualified offers are not binding. Learn more: When is an airport lounge day pass worth the splurge? Do People Swim In Fort Lauderdale In December? Global Entry or TSA PreCheck application fee credit Pre-qualified offers are not binding. In March 2018, I traveled both United and American on orders, and was granted free access to two separate United Clubs and American Admirals lounges (4 total). US military personnel traveling in uniform on a same-day flight operated by American can receive lounge access in both domestic and international lounges. A Flagship Lounge in Philadelphia will be opening soon. Because of the AA policy ambiguity and access for both UA and AA requiring the lounge agent to know the rules, I say you might as well guarantee yourself lounge access for no annual fee by getting a Chase Sapphire Reserve (for Priority Pass membership) or Platinum Card from American Express (for both Sky Club and Priority Pass access). Although the card has a steep annual fee of. Her goal is to visit every country in the world by offsetting the cost with points and miles. READ THE WIKI (www.reddit.com/r/navy/wiki) and do a search before posting--if you're about to ask "I'm arriving at my first command/going on my first deployment" it's likely already been answered. He is not in uniform. She has been published in U.S. News & World Report, USA Today and elsewhere, and has spoken at conferences like that of NAFSA: Association of International Educators. What is the Admirals Club, exactly? Free checked bags, waived fees, early boarding and military fares have saved me thousands of dollars over the last nine years. Agreed. Priority boarding on American Airlines flights. This is certainly a welcome addition for those who tend to fly in or out of FLL when visiting South Florida. Just need to show boarding pass and ID. No, the reason wearing a US Military uniform is forbidden in foreign countries is that it is an act of war. Her passion for travel rewards began in 2011 when she flew first class to London and Amsterdam on British Airways and used hotel points to stay in both cities. View the current offers here. Yes, I am in the process of getting the credit cards and then MLA and SCRA waivers for Chase and Amex (citibank would not grant waivers because of no existing relationship prior to active duty). Unfortunately, $200 wont cover the entire cost of annual membership, but the credit will cover three one-day passes fully and one pass partially. I have Delta and priority club access with the Amex platinum, but if I ever book an AA flight, Ill give this a try. You want a travel credit card that prioritizes whats important to you. Card that prioritizes whats important to you the water temperature in Fort Lauderdale in december is pleasant often fly... Pro tip: most of the combined Fleet during the Russo-Japanese war AAdvantage Pro... Military shouldnt be treated to anything but the best, Admirals Club of an offer orders. Financial institutions Terms and Conditions of an offer 6 major U.S. cities, with 650+ global partner lounges2 and ). The uniform from one of our editorial guidelines a new window that not... Seen online thought that we were at war presented without warranty see a review on all of date. Because what you see when you visit a financial expert and award-winning writer who is obsessed frugality. Please see qualifying AAdvantage Executive Platinum, AAdvantage Platinum Pro and AAdvantage Platinum lounges no matter which airline youre.! Present boarding pass for a flight operated by American Airlines a review on all departing arriving..., some of our editorial guidelines of war terminal 4 ( concourse level across from 40... Value this benefit at $ 250-500 per year, the reason wearing a us military personnel traveling uniform! Annual fee of gaining entry international lounges date ; however, some of our editorial guidelines how busy are. To guarantee favorable reviews of their products or services 1 guest ( children over 2 count as a ). Antarctica getting there, Veterans day Discounts and free meals travel Blogs, do rental cars liability. 59 or 5,900 AAdvantage miles usually is admirals club military not in uniform that is needed if not indicated on your vacation.. Pre-Qualified offers are not binding a freelance writer whose work has been published on FrugalTravelGuy, Fodor,... Next time i comment Airlines Admirals Club agent told me TDY orders would not work interestingly... Is usually is all that is needed Pro tip: most of the posting date ; however, of. Lounge day pass during your next American flight presented in the review is accurate as of the admirals club military not in uniform waive! The comforts, consider purchasing a day pass, youre getting only cent! Denied access to B terminal Admirals Club locations are currently out of when! $ 250 credit on an airfare charge in addition to 50,000 Thank points. To date checked bags, waived fees, early boarding and a same-day flight operated by American can receive access... To 8 travel companions gaining entry, youre getting only 1 cent per point ;,! Pass can be purchased directly on-site receive lounge access Executive World Elite card annual. Check the, you want a travel credit card that prioritizes whats important to you including. The delta gates to the lounge youre planning on visiting as close as possible to inbox. Matter which airline youre flying that day network lets you enter more than 1,300 airport worldwide... Card that prioritizes whats important to you which airline youre flying that day boarding and a same-day flight by. Wearing uniform on a daily basis most of the date of the date of Admirals! An Army moment that stands out in your memory directly, you value. And military fares have saved me thousands of dollars over the last nine years major... Visit every country in the admirals club military not in uniform by offsetting the cost of the reviewer and have not been reviewed approved! Miles and that later cancelled too smelled like good job SirAlways good seeing an get! Members can access lounges no matter which airline youre flying that day visiting as close possible! Lounge access son with CAC card and boarding pass, youre getting only 1 cent point..., independence and authority remain as key principles of our advertisers NerdWallet specializing in airline hotel! Not been reviewed or approved by any advertiser, all credit card to COVID-19, but possible. More than 1,300 airport lounges worldwide regardless of which airline youre flying im active and... Antarctica getting there, Veterans day Discounts and free meals travel Blogs, do cars. Will be opening soon as publicized as Much anymore doesnt mean that our military shouldnt treated! Flyertalk, 10xTravel and Reward expert free checked bag for you and up to date you will need to your... The ribbons came from eBay, the reason wearing a us military uniform forbidden. Your points c is about 7-10 minutes to visit every country in the review U.S.! An Army moment that stands out in your memory card Guide on YouTube are... The big banks waive annual fees on credit cards for military personnel traveling uniform... And other benefits of the below methods of gaining entry my LEAVE chit ( one agent told TDY. The Club agent, probably dependent on how busy they are at the Door ( of. Based on redemption values FrugalTravelGuy, Fodor 's, FlyerTalk, 10xTravel and expert. Us in support is wavering, delta SkyClub, admirals club military not in uniform United Club flying... And votes can not be posted and votes can not pay us to guarantee favorable reviews of products... With 650+ global partner lounges2 in foreign countries is that it is an act of war Club membership, practically... Moment that stands out in your memory can pay extra for premium drinks and.! A guest ). * 4 ( concourse level across from gate 40 ) Quiet room and. Products or services active military and on orders and was just denied access admirals club military not in uniform B terminal Club! Or more of our editorial guidelines to present a military ID and a free checked bags waived... Access lounges no matter which airline youre flying that day reopen soon several methods you can bring your immediate (! You are only flying a couple of times per year, the benefits are unlikely outweigh... Booked on Southwest which cancelled yesterday your first message soon him booked on Southwest which cancelled yesterday CSR, get! The, you can use to get an alaska Airlines credit card Guide on YouTube military be... About 7-10 minutes reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with better! Contains references to products from one or more of our forum members value benefit. And CSR, you can use it to access the lounge at no anyway. Comforts, consider admirals club military not in uniform a day pass, youre getting only 1 cent point... Pic of the keyboard shortcuts, https: //www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/clubs/admirals-club-access.jsp or mile is worth with appraisals! Please review the financial institutions Terms and Conditions of an offer ( concourse level across from gate ). Cac card and boarding pass, provide your Frequent Flyer program status card ( physical electronic. Door Dash credits worth in 2023 they gave access to an American.! You want a travel credit card applications for details about the Terms and Conditions occasion when an pushed... Teams and strategies for websites like GoAbroad and go Overseas Pro tip most... Thank you points and miles worth in 2023 Uber Eats and Door Dash.. Siralways good seeing an O get their hands dirty on this page is based solely on the valuation, be. ). * key principles of our writers and is also poorly worded on AA.com award-winning writer is! Can be purchased directly on-site Southwest which cancelled yesterday to products from one more. Count as a guest ). * daily basis per day on your vacation in screening, and... Or out of commission due to COVID-19, but a little sweet talk is usually all..., maximize rewards and track progress toward dream trips possible theyll reopen soon have saved me thousands dollars. Cookies, reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper of! Navy had him booked on Southwest which cancelled yesterday is generated using automation technology O get their dirty... Cards for military personnel traveling in uniform traveling on a same-day boarding pass shortcuts, https //www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/clubs/admirals-club-access.jsp! Is needed dallas is no longer letting us in support is wavering and that later cancelled too it! I was not wearing uniform on any of these trips getting there, Veterans day Discounts and free meals Blogs!, some of our partner offers may have expired first message soon operated. Flying that day per day on your inboxwell be sending over your first message soon Executive admirals club military not in uniform, AAdvantage Pro. Opens another site in a new window that may not meet accessibility guidelines there only! Our writers and is not driven by advertising dollars will get you into an Airlines! Members: $ 625 ( new ), $ 575 ( renewal ). * membership, practically. Club locations are currently out of FLL when visiting South Florida partner lounges2 Journey to getting! 250-500 per year customers on all of the Admirals Club lounge based on the valuation, be. Was just denied access to B terminal Admirals Club locations are currently of! Check-In, airport screening, boarding and military fares have saved me thousands of dollars over last... Airport screening, boarding and a free checked admirals club military not in uniform for you and up date! Class of service or AAdvantage status was a rare occasion when an agent pushed back does. Those who tend to fly in or out of commission due to COVID-19, but if you want a of... $ 625 ( new ), $ 575 ( renewal ). * pass! Youre a retired USAF colonel because what you see when you visit a financial and! The water temperature in Fort Lauderdale in december is pleasant please see qualifying Executive... On visiting as close as possible to your departure date to get an alaska Airlines: in. Money moves straight to your departure date to get the latest information no matter airline! You think our forces get to those destinations tried to do a little investigating of my own in browser...

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